Oh it's definitely not that for me.
I genuinely like Volume 4 and think it's the best 'Flight since Byrne.
And I really like the Space aspect and elevated status & respect in Captain Marvel.
Oh it's definitely not that for me.
I genuinely like Volume 4 and think it's the best 'Flight since Byrne.
And I really like the Space aspect and elevated status & respect in Captain Marvel.
^ I feel the same way
The goal...the vision...the purpose...was to get rid of original Alpha Flight, yet (somehow) capitalize off its popularity. It is the most cynical approach to sequential storytelling I've ever seen.
Isn't that what happened when Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Hawkeye became the Avengers?
When Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler and Colossus became the X-Men?
It seems like a pretty standard trope in comics, to me.
Apples to apples. oranges to oranges...
I'm actually glad that you brought this up, because in the old days characters were written out of books while as well as characters written into books...without going for killing off character, in mass, in the most wretched, inane ways possible...while pretending to "love" the very characters that they were destroying.
Captain America is (was) a living legend. Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch were reformed villains. They all soon proved themselves to be effective Avengers.
When Dave Cockrum, Len Wein, and Chris Claremont first started revitalizing The X-Men, they were not the most popular kids on the block.
Once upon a time, they exploded from the pages of The X-Men. For a moment, they were "Canada's answer to The Avengers."
They were ALPHA FLIGHT....
...once upon a time.
Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
Just because those worked, doesn't mean they weren't cynical approaches!
Look at all the Events.Look at all the variant covers and gimmicks. Death of Superman. Breaking the Bat. - cynical marketing tools that sell comics.
Of course, if replacing the team was a standard approach by the time Mantlo took over AF, it may not have been simply a cynical ploy.
~ Le Messor
"I was sixty-six years old. I still had to make a living. I looked at my social security check of 105 dollars and decided to use that to try to franchise my chicken recipe. Folks had always liked my chicken."
~ Colonel Harland Sanders
But, Alpha Flight was supposed to be "a different kind of super-team book."
But, Alpha Flight was supposed to be "a different kind of super-team book."If the killing of characters as the major direction for comic book creative switch in The Avengers, or The X-Men, or any of the other super-groups, then how does this give Alpha Flight "a completely different slant towards telling super hero stories"? If the "first job is going to be to pull the team together...and (o)nce they're held together as a team, they will act as a team. If one of them has a problem, that problem will involve the whole team, instead of specific individual adventures as you've seen in the first two years of ALPHA FLIGHT..."
Help me out, because in the first 6 months of the crossover, yes they got a (remote) headquarters with one omni-ship and Snowbird gave a brilliant speech in # 29 to galvanize the group, but I'm hard-pressed to see the evidence of them acting as a team. Maybe I missed it.
Exactly my point! It's not unique to Mantlo or AF.Just because those worked, doesn't mean they weren't cynical approaches!
I haven't once said that Mantlo fulfilled a single thing he set out to, or that it was 'completely different' or that they acted as a team.
I haven't defended his writing or justified what he did to the team.
I've merely pointed out that his results weren't unique and were equally as cynical as other comics. And certainly far less cynical by today's standards.
There would be no point Mantlo trying to ape Byrne's writing.
He took a swing at something different to make his run stand out, and he missed.
There's no conspiracy or crime, and he certainly didn't owe anyone anything; he just didn't succeed.
Yet it's still not the worst run/storyline/use of the characters.
Alpha Flight or Alpha Flight in name only?
The thing is, are the original characters really back?
Aurora/Jeanne-Marie: discounting the yellow/blue eyes of volume 4, the 2006 All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe describes Aurora as a "terrorist", first and foremost. It also states her identity as "Secret", although the short, concise entry in the 2010 Heroic Age: Heroes says "identity public."
The two members of (original) Alpha Flight who really shouldn't have their identities public are Jeanne-Marie/Aurora (who is portrayed more as a victim than a superhero) and Heather McNeil Hudson (who comes from a large family).
Yes, I agree with Phil that the difference between what Mantlo said in Marvel Age and the actual comic is probably more a 'swing and a miss!' than anything; sometimes plans change when you get to actually writing stories.
Though I will say (not as a good thing) they were more of a team under Mantlo than Byrne, because they weren't all solo adventures under Mantlo.
~ Le Messor
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you."
~ Francis Roberts
See - my problem was the idea of "Let's kill'em off."
You cited Avengers #4 and Giant Size X-Men - in both cases, the team disbanded essentially. No one needed to die. Just in case these characters needed to be used later.
But all the characters from Byrne's run are currently alive and were used after Mantlo's run...
Bill skilled Snowbird; and correct me if I am wrong (as I might be), but he didn't bring her back to life.
Rather, he used Walter to take over her body. So he resurrected Walter.
Which is odd, because in that initial interview he says, "Walter is already taken care of" (because he was "dead" at the time).
Snowbird wasn't resurrected till much later, if I remember correctly? Post Bill?
So he killed at least one - and didn't bring them back.
And does anyone think his resurrection of Walter, and how he did it, was a good one?
Unique, sure, but further made Alpha Flight a joke.
As I remember it, the resurrection of Snowbird wasn't 'til after Volume 1.
Bill skilled Snowbird; and correct me if I am wrong (as I might be), but he didn't bring her back to life.
Aha, so when you say "Let's kill'em off." you mean that he killed your favourite character off :P
Yeah, he did kill Snowbird, and Bochs, but that's not many for a run of his length.
And I realize Bochs remained dead, so I was wrong when I lumped in 'all the characters'
However, just to point out that I said 'currently alive' - I didn't claim Mantlo resurrected Snowbird. I was just commenting on the revolving wheel of death in comics, and that even if he had killed off every member they'd have been brought back eventually - as they have been.
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